Mad world

[bill_schubert]

There are three of use who walk our dogs illegally off leash on the path around the retention pond.  Zoe and I do it every day.  One I've seen only once.  And the other guy I've seen many times over the years.  This last one currently has a chocolate lab who I first saw as a puppy.  He's had other dogs but I don't see them any more and they may have died.  He now just walks his one year old lab.  And I walk Zoe.  And the two dogs pass each other and sniff 'Hi' and move.  Minding their own business.  

But the guy.  He's in his late 40's or early 50's I'd guess.  WASP type, like me.  When I first encountered him a couple of years ago we immediately had something in common.  We both had raised our dogs so that they were happy, non-aggressive, and trail friendly.  So he and I stopped and talked a bit about the nothings that people talk about.  We met a few more times over the past couple of years always taking a few minutes to pass the time.  Nothing important ever said.  Until the day about last summer he was all excited and invited me to meet up with his group that night to put out Trump signs in the yards.  My response was congenial.  I didn't say anything derogatory  about it but said he had found likely the one person in the area who most disliked Trump.  A bit of hyperbole but defensible.  He kind of harrumphed and moved on.

This exchange of 10 seconds changed my thoughts about him permanently but not my outward attitude towards him.  I will never really understand someone who at the very least is tolerating racism, misogyny, xenophobia, and reality distortion (aka outright lying) in supporting Trump.  But with someone I'm not every going to have a relationship with outside of passing on the trail it is not important.  So I still say hello to him, a cheery good morning.  But he hardly acknowledges me now.  This morning I said 'Good morning' to his face not three feet from me and he just walked on.  It is sad and funny at the same time.  I'll show him.  I'll just be nice.  

If you want to be an asshat, go for it.  There's lots of company out there.  But get the fuck over yourself and acknowledge the common humanity that we share.  

At least say hello to my dog.

Comments

[zoefruitcake.livejournal.com]

How childish of him

[zestfive.livejournal.com]

Our country has gotten so divisive and some folks are truly violent in their stance.

[taz-39.livejournal.com]

Sigh.

My parents voted for Trump. And probably more than half my backwater town.
Which they are entitled to do. I still love them. May not understand their reasons, but I don't understand their reasons for tons of things.

It's kind of a shame that this pandemic coincided with this extremism in the US. Because now it's like every decision we make feels political or is skewed political by others. I have a strong work ethic, so I *must* be conservative. I'm willing to call someone "they" if that's what they prefer, so I *must* be a liberal.

I got the covid vaccine, so I *must* be a brainwashed left-wing sheeple.
My parents DIDN'T get the vaccine, so they *must* be selfish ignorant Deplorables.

Never mind that we all are supposed to be making decisions for OURSELVES, and leaving others the eff alone.

I would have refused too, politely, and with an openness that I hope would convey I didn't want my decision to alienate us.
But we can only control what we do, and not how others react to what we do.

Reading this post made me think about a weeklong family visit I've got coming up. All of my siblings and myself, their spouses, their friends, are vaccinated. My parents are not. It's a family gathering so there's no question dirty laundry will be aired, but I wonder how many lines will be crossed. Would hate to create a rift like the one you describe.

[sleepybadger.livejournal.com]

I think it's so interesting that he would not only assume that you were definitely a trump supporter, but that you would be enough of a trump supporter that you'd be excited about putting up trump signs in yards.

[msconduct.livejournal.com]

Well, that's...unfortunate. I've often wondered what it's like these days in the US dealing with people who are on the other side of the battle lines. I'd imagined it would be pretty difficult, and it's clear from this guy's behaviour that it's actually impossible to some people. I have no idea what's going to happen going forward. It would be nice in some ways if the US divided up so that the sane people don't have to continually contend with the insane ones, but of course it's never that easy and has millions of fishhooks of its own. As you've already found once before.

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

Good on you! Life is too short to waste energy on narrow-minded, emotionally stunted folks ... ie ... tRUMP supporters.

[bill-schubert.livejournal.com]

I don't interact with a lot of people IRL and so have no more idea than you about what things are like here. It may take a while before things cool back down. It may take Trump dying before things cool down. I put so much of this at the foot of Rush Limbaugh and Trump. Limbaugh was the original instigator. He broadcast political propaganda for decades. I once was working in a pottery studio where the owner had him playing on the radio. As I told him that either Rush or I would have to go he said "i just listen to him because he's funny". But the truth is that there is no way to listen to something like that without getting indoctrinated. The Rush followers even called themselves "Dittoheads" as if irony would protect them. But it was as effective as it is in China, USSR and North Korea. That laid the groundwork for Trump and all the others who spew the racist, xenophobic propaganda.

But I think the scales will tip back some for a while. I still believe that the society will move away from that kind of stance and towards social justice. But there will be retreats before progress.

And some people are just assholes by nature. What are you going to do.

[msconduct.livejournal.com]

I read an intensely depressing article recently about the extreme likelihood that the Pubbles will sweep the elections next year. That knocked the wind out of my sails. Trump dying would be very helpful, but I'm also hoping that they'll get him locked up soon. Surely that would help.

[msconduct.livejournal.com]

It occurred to me later that I probably interact with Republicans more than you do! I've taken several nature/wildlife trips with an American company and we are usually the only non-Americans. Politics are never discussed, but you get a list of participants beforehand and i always google them to see what I'm getting myself into. They're almost always Republicans, something I find bitterly ironic given they're nature enthusiasts and the Republicans love to do their damnded to destroy the environment. They're also almost always lovely people on a one-to-one basis, and I find it so weird contemplating that underneath their personal kindness they support such hateful policies. Even the ones who are only fiscally conservative are still turning away from people in desperate need of help. So hard to get your head around.

[bill-schubert.livejournal.com]

I no longer interact with many people at all other than on LJ. So, yeah, I'm in my echo chamber. I'm old enough that I don't much feel like I need to overhaul what I believe in periodically. I've heard both sides of the story so many times I could repeat the lines of either party.

I was raised in conservative North Carolina, home of some of the loveliest southern gentlemen you can imagine. They were, of course, in the backroom maintaining the foundations of the John Birch Society, the gentleman's KKK, when I wasn't looking. My father was a huge support of Barry Goldwater for president and detested unions. I fully understood his position but joined two unions in my lifetime. Our family was not one for overt conflict so I never challenged him and he never really asked me about my opinions or if he did I presented them in such a way as to avoid confrontation.

I went to school in the good old boy system in the south, a boys school peopled with racists and entitled white boys and I was a pariah for not joining in. That lesson taught me to fade into the background and stay away from most people.

But I read my share of William Buckley along with George Orwell, Ayn Rand along with Eldridge Cleaver. I could be an undercover conservative, meld in with the Proud Boys. I've got the creds and could spew the right garbage and they would believe me if I got my hair cut.

I still frequently read George Will and dabble in the tenants of fiscal conservatives. But I look at the progress that our country HAS made over my lifetime and most of it is based on the contributions of the progressives like LBJ and Clinton and Obama.

When I was growing up we never argued. We never sat around the table like Scalia and pushed back and forth. So I'm no good at it. People like Scalia and the venerable RBG have a talent not only for deep understanding and extensive, focused, presentation of ideas but for the verbal version of scrabbling in the dirt, for eye gouging, and counterpunching.

The problem I see is that most people's views are vapid and without much foundation. They are an inch wide and an inch deep and we have little upon which to conduct a conversation other than the day to day stuff. I had one of the more likely people to become a friend to me state, this was years ago, that 'we should just move the people in the cities out to the country where they can work on farms and raise their own food'. How does one respond to that? Not honestly. I could not count the number of levels of stupidity in that thought. I just grunted something nonsensical and crossed him off the list as someone I wanted to be around. He remarried to a right wing anti-mask flag waiving Trumpist.

So, no, I don't have a lot of friends for rather obvious reasons. I'm not good at arguing so the Scalias of the world are out. And I can only take so much mental indolence so a lot of others are out too. That sounds so arrogant when I write it but I just don't have patience with people and am old enough to admit it. Two out of three of the children in our family agree.

[msconduct.livejournal.com]

I think you're right to see the benefits progressives have brought in the US. I've gone in the opposite direction from normal and have become more liberal with age. My ex-husband was an economist who worshipped the Chicago school, and he convinced me at the time that that was the way to go. However, since then I've felt that fiscal policies that lift everyone up, while not perfect, benefit not just the bottom but the top too. It's complex, obviously, and nothing is absolute. Unions have done a tremendous amount of good for the worker, for example, while at the same time currently bankrupting some US cities with their pension plans.

I'm the last person to be shocked by your misanthropic ways, as I am only becoming more misanthropic with age. I don't want to argue with people about opinions they have which, as you say, have little foundation, and the older I get the more I realise how fruitless that kind of discussion mostly is in any case as it rarely changes anyone's mind. Kind of fading away into the background, like you mention, is my exact strategy. Also, I already know what I think and I frequently bore myself expressing it. So like you I have few people I interact with. I live with my best friend and I enjoy talking to her very much, but very few other people.

[bill-schubert.livejournal.com]

I've never actually met an economist and am barely conversant in that level of economy-philosophy. It is like the difference between being able to repair a PC and understanding computer science. I'm glad someone does it and I can glean a bit from listening to someone discuss it but I achieve MEGO pretty quickly.

I just got off my Hacks On Tap podcast where they talked a lot about Liz Cheney and the future of the Trumpublican Party. It is going to be an interesting cycle. They had a pollster on there who was discussing the recent poll indicating that 70 percent of people who identify as Republican believe that Trump won the election. Actually believe it. Not like Bush / Gore where Gore capitulated and said that Bush was President but actually believe that Trump is the elected President. That's about 55 million people who are mesmerized by Trump.

Your idea that he be prosecuted is maybe a pipe dream. There are something like 29 civil lawsuits and multiple criminal investigations but I suspect he'll just spend the rest of his life paying lawyers and nothing will come of it and people will continue giving him money to do just that.

The only up side is that it cripples the Republican party. Trump backed candidates have a long losing streak that I think will continue no matter how much they try to rig the votes.

And meanwhile Biden and company are doing the next task. And the next one. And the next. He's incredibly disciplined having planned for these four years for the past 60 or so. It is amazing to see him work.

Footnotes:
1. MEGO — My Eyes Glaze Over

[msconduct.livejournal.com]

You're not missing much with the economics. I had plenty of exposure to it during my marriage and I came out very unimpressed with the field. There's a joke among economists about an engineer, a chemist and an economist stranded on a desert island with canned food and no can opener. The engineer designs one out of shells. The chemist dissolves the can using juice from a sea creature. The economist says "First assume a can opener..." The joke's funny because it puts its finger on economics' biggest weakness: the entire thing is literally based on the assumption that people behave logically. Since they clearly don't (I used to say to my ex-husband that my entire field of psychology fit into that single assumption) the usefulness of it is limited to say the least.

Yes, as I've been a QAnon and general extreme right wing watcher for a good year now, I'm all too aware of the number of Republicans convinced of Trump's "victory". I'm very concerned that the farce of a recount currently going on in Maricopa County is going to spread throughout the Trumpy districts nationwide and make things even worse. It's scary, not least because there are other right wing idealogues including other Trump family members ready to step into his shoes even if we do get rid of him. I am, however, more hopeful than you that that might be possible via the good old Al Capone route. I was greatly cheered when Cy Vance appointed Mark Pomerantz, who got Gotti behind bars. They're pressing Trump's right hand man Allen Weisselberg very hard (they have dirt on his son with why they're trying to flip him) and recently Weisselberg's financial records were subpoenaed which is a huge step forward. Trump will try and delay, of course, but they've already made substantial steps forward in this case which indicates he might not find that as easy as he would like. Fingers crossed.

[bill-schubert.livejournal.com]

I think Trump will die a death of a thousand cuts but is too oily to get caught flat out. His henchmen will not fare so well but I don't think he'll ever end up in jail. Conviction of any felony would shut down what I think are weak plans to run again. It's hard to say how successful his progeny will be but there will definitely be a long term drum beat of Trumpism.

A while back when I was walking different dogs than I do today I listened to Planet Money. Before I got out of the habit I did pick up a lot about economics. While referring and explaining about the various schools of economics they brought it down to the street to how it effected individuals. But I they did point out exactly what you did about the absurdity of the overall concepts.